Code reds so to speak! "If you can't burn it don't go over it!" "No spot joking!" "A piece goes over a bomb!!" I miss piecing and productions - being the cock of the walk! Nowadays, everybody is "up" and a lot of toys are up just as much. There is a select few that are doing some amazing bombing stuff but most of what I see is crap. Kids don't even learn style anymore, they just go out and piece on the freeway. The uglier the better!!!

A lot of cats that have held down the scene are moving into gallery-style art. Y'know - canvases, painting, etc. Why do you think this is? Have you always been into painting with paintbrushes? If not, how'd you get into it?

I think it's a way of getting up in life! Getting paid to do somthing you love. People like Barry Mcgee and Shepard have paved the way for us to be able to show our work. I think it's more acceptable that they're starting to see it as an artform and not a fad like the hula hoop. I think we as graff writers let a lot of people use our culture to get paid. A lot of illustrators who have never picked up a can are doing letters and bubbles. Ithink we need to take that market back from these so-called street artists. So I think it's good that there is a gallery movement. I saw bubbles and drips on a Comedy Central commercial.

Graff is everywhere.

My mother was an oil painter when I was real young. She did a lot of landscapes and seascapes. So I was introduced to art at a very young age. I started drawing and painting when I was about 5. I wasn't really serious about painting untill my early twenties. My brother is the whole reason I started painting and drawing, He was a really good cartoonist. He could draw things from memory exactly. He'd look at a monster magazine, close it, and then draw what he saw. It was amazing to me! So I took it upon myself to learn.

I was about 5...maybe younger. My mom got me this "How to Draw Cartoons" book so I flipped right to the back and drew this wiener dog. Immediatly showed it to my mom and she went crazy over it. So about Christmastime we had the whole family over for a party, and my mom asked me to get my drawing and show everyone. They all liked it and gave me compliments on it. This didn't sit well with my brother! Later he sat me down and said "Draw all you want. You'll never be as good as me." SO that put a fire under me and i drew my ass off...

He's a nurse's assistant now. Yeah, so that's how I got into art.

What's the difference between painting with brushes and cans?

In the begining there was a real big difference. I painted with cans differently than brushes. I would change my subject or composition for spray paint. I would just be happy with what came out or not happy with what came out! I just learned to settle or be sattisfied. It was hard to be clean and tight - I could never get small enough lines. Learning "can control" was the hardest medium that I have ever tried!! Tattooing was pretty hard too! Although I never tried using a projector, I think that's cheating! Now, I paint exactly the same light-to-dark and with the handy dandy stencil cap or "zap cap" - whatever you want to call it! I get all the small lines I need..

A lot of your work is seemingly dark and brooding... am I reading them correctly? Why is this so?

Yeah, dark and innocent really. I use art as an outlet for my mind. Art therapy so to speak. The macabre facinates me. Its amazing how evil people are!

Whattya mean?

I had pretty much all but given up on the human race. Betrayal runs deep like a switchblade in your stomach. You feel like this is it, I'm cashin' in, becoming a hermit and locking myself away, window shopping my way through the world for years to come. I refused to let people in - why should I? I was convinced they were all just "energy vampires" with a hidden agenda, wanting to fuck my girly, or better yet pretended to be my freind to steal ideas, emotion, creativity, and or money. People are the worst evil in this world. We act on impulse and emotion, we will fuck each other over for capital and social gain. Voids we feel we can only fill with drugs or sexual polygamy. You don't need a red deity with his minions to scare everyone... we have the media for that: Always some evil deity overseas, we got to go in and strong-arm like the mafia for monetary or idealistic gain...

Yet out of nowhere you run in to someone who makes you think just a little bit more, pushes you to except your faults and deal with them. They show you beauty in everything, and even make you start to believe there are good people in this world. Then you start to think maybe, just maybe, I had to go through all of that fucked up shit to understand and get over these bad desicions I had made. A moment of clarity hits you... I feel naked!!!!

Yo, brotha's DEEP! Alright - switchin' subjects, a lot of critics claim graffiti is a stagnant art form - nothing's really changed over the past couple decades. Would you agree or disagree with this sentiment?

I disagree. I think the hip-hop art movement is stagant, or even regressing back to '80's style letters. The reason why they might say it's stagant is because they're grouping a whole art form with as many styles as chinese calligraphy into one group - the "cutsey graffiti" i like to call it AND that's all they're seeing... the real work is being done in the streets! There are the same people in every major graf show every time. There are a lot of sleepers out there that are just waitng for their chance to shine.

What's next for graffiti?

I want to take it to a 3rd level with chisels and jack-hammers, architecture, pvc piping, plexiglass,... but I don't think they're ready for that..